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Unedited Gchat with Mira Gonzalez

Mira Gonzalez is a powerful young poet whose book I will never be beautiful enough to make us beautiful together is important, and you should read it, immediately. Here is my favorite poem:

what I ate today: coffee, curry vegetable thing from whole foods, plum

I am most comfortable around people who criticize me
I feel like anyone who isn’t constantly criticizing me is lying
or expecting me to be something different
it feels insane that you need money to do things like
develop a drug addiction, or move across the country
I don’t identify as depressed even though I feel depressed
it seems unfair that I only get to feel a finite amount of things in my life lately I have been assuming that dried fruit has more calories than regular fruit
I feel like 400 dead jellyfish in the middle of a freeway

***

Geoffrey Litwack:

Hi Mira

(if you’re there)

Mira Gonzalez:

hey!

im here

Geoffrey Litwack:

Hey!

I was nervous because you have the red away dot next to your profile

But no one I talk to ever marks themselves as available

Mira Gonzalez:

oh lol

yeah i never mark myself as available

too scary

Geoffrey Litwack:

Exactly

SO

I read your book, twice

Mira Gonzalez:

oh whoa

Geoffrey Litwack:

Well, it’s short

Mira Gonzalez:

thanks for taking time out of your life to do that lol

yeah not many pages

still thanks

Geoffrey Litwack:

I loved it

I felt a strong sense of identification even though we are years apart, etc

I wanted to ask you a few things about it, since I had two different impressions

One from each reading

Mira Gonzalez:

oh thats great to hear, glad you enjoyed it

ask away

Geoffrey Litwack:

okay

After the first read I thought about David Berman’s poems

The Silver Jews guy

Because your poems tend to end strong, sometimes using almost a setup-punchline structure

Mira Gonzalez:

damn sweet

i dont think ive ever read david berman

Geoffrey Litwack:

Yeah

I’m not sure if he’s widely read

But but

You said somewhere that you like Haruki Murakami?

Mira Gonzalez:

i do yes

a lot

Geoffrey Litwack:

Me too

So the second time I read the book, the poems almost felt like short stories

Linked stories

Mira Gonzalez:

oh thats interesting

Geoffrey Litwack:

I don’t really have a critical framework for evaluating poetry

I’m a bystander, basically

Mira Gonzalez:

that seems better to me lol

Geoffrey Litwack:

Good!

Mira Gonzalez:

i dont feel like i have a critical framework for evaluating poetry either

Geoffrey Litwack:

Mm

I was reading this Robert Bolano book the other day

and one of the characters is like “that stupid asshole didn’t even know what a rispetto is”

and I was like oh jesus, neither do I

That said

In this poem

when I die you can have my heart-shaped sunglasses

You write

“they told me that trust versus mistrust
is the primary psychological dilemma of early childhood”

That’s Erik Erikson, right?

Mira Gonzalez:

damn i dont think so

or actually

maybe it is

i was taking a child developmental psychology class at the time

we were learning about the psychological dilemmas of various age groups

i have since forgotten the name of every psychologist we learned about

but that very well could be erik erikson

youd probably know better than me

Geoffrey Litwack:

I had to google it

Mira Gonzalez:

yeah im googling it now

i think it was him

Geoffrey Litwack:

I was looking at those psychological dilemmas, though

And you’re 21, right?

Mira Gonzalez:

yeah i am

Geoffrey Litwack:

So theoretically you’d be in the “intimacy versus isolation” stage

Mira Gonzalez:

lol yes exactly

Geoffrey Litwack:

Heh

That kind of framed these poems for me

Mira Gonzalez:

interesting huh

yeah thats interesting you say that, feels really ‘nail on the head’

Geoffrey Litwack:

But I feel like almost everyone is in the intimacy versus isolation stage now, even much older people

Yeah I don’t want to put a hat on a hat

Mira Gonzalez:

lol yeah

seems like all people struggle with all stages for their entire life

some of them are just more in focus than others

Geoffrey Litwack:

I agree completely

I only bring this up because your poems seem pretty interested and engaged with philosophical ideas

Mira Gonzalez:

yeah i really like philosophy

i was reading a lot of philosophy stuff when i wrote most of those poems, i think

Geoffrey Litwack:

Thank christ

Mira Gonzalez:

lol

Geoffrey Litwack:

I was a philosophy major, I was worried I might be projecting or something

Mira Gonzalez:

lol not at all

i like philosophy a lot

it was probably the subject i have been most consistently interested i n

in*

Geoffrey Litwack:

It comes through

I think that’s part of why I felt so connected to the book

Another strong theme seems like the frustration with the limits of the human body and consciousness

I don’t want to say “you” meaning the voice in the poems

uh

what should I say instead

Mira Gonzalez:

im not sure what you mean, i think

Geoffrey Litwack:

There’s a first-person narration in most of the poems

Mira Gonzalez:

yeah

all the poems are about things that happened to me, if thats what you men

mean*

jesus egregious spelling errors

Geoffrey Litwack:

Oh, okay

no no

Mira Gonzalez:

lol

Geoffrey Litwack:

no worries

Okay, well, I’ll just say you to mean the person speaking in the poems

annnnyway

In the book you seem to want to merge and co-mingle with things and people

Maybe mix your consciousness, or even your atoms

But it seemed like I could feel a real frustration about the impossibility of that

Is that something that was on your mind?

Mira Gonzalez:

yeah i think so

or i guess, thats always a subject thats been on my mind, consistently

how were all sort of stuck in the confines of our own skull

and we can think that we feel close to someone, but in reality that is a huge leap of faith

to think that you know what someone else is feeling, or thinking

or to think you know how someone feels about you

were all just guessing and assuming, in the end

feels extremely frustrating to me

but also sort of comforting i guess

Geoffrey Litwack:

Mmm

I was not going to ask about drugs

(or Black Flag)

But is this a reason you take drugs?

Mira Gonzalez:

you can ask about either/both of those things if you want, i dont care lol

yeah i guess

i never really thought about drugs in that context

drugs sometimes make me feel closer to people, but im still very aware of that divide

i think i just take drugs because they make me feel different and good

Geoffrey Litwack:

I guess the classic drug to take to feel emotionally closer to people is ecstasy

Mira Gonzalez:

yeah

i dont feel like i take drugs specifically to get closer to people thoug

if i do mdma its just because i want to feel good, i think

Geoffrey Litwack:

I think the drugs I’ve seen you write about either in the book or on twitter are Adderall, Xanax, cocaine…

Mira Gonzalez:

yeah i like those drugs

i like mdma too but i do that way less

mdma seems like a commitment

Geoffrey Litwack:

You have to buy special pants

It’s a whole thing

Mira Gonzalez:

lol what the hell

mdma pants

Geoffrey Litwack:

Rave pants

Oh god i feel so old right now

Mira Gonzalez:

lol holy shit rave pants

thats insane

i cant picture ‘rave pants’

Geoffrey Litwack:

Google image “JNCO”

Mira Gonzalez:

oh my god these are insane

the pockets are huge

Geoffrey Litwack:

Yeah

Everyone who had or could get MDMA wore those pants

Mira Gonzalez:

fuck seriously

that would be so convenient i feel

like you could see someone walking around in those insane pants and know they had mdma

Geoffrey Litwack:

Exactly

You don’t write about LSD, though

Mira Gonzalez:

no, i dont do LSD really

i did it once

if i did it now id probably freak out

(brb one sec you can keep typing)

Geoffrey Litwack:

okay

I guess what I was getting at was that the desire to merge with someone or something, or to be at a different physical- or time-scale re: drugs is something I associate with LSD

But you don’t take it

So it’s just how your brain works

Mira Gonzalez:

yeah i dont think that has anything to do with LSD, for me

or any drug really

Geoffrey Litwack:

That’s good

I find that pleasing, for some reason

I think I like the theme so much that it would have been a little disappointing if it were chemically-generated

That’s a weird thing to say

Mira Gonzalez:

lol no i understand i think

i feel like no drug has changed the way i think that significantly

i like drugs because they are a fun thing to do but they dont change my world view

except in the context of seeking out drugs in more situations

or looking at various situations in the context of ‘what drugs can i do here’

lol

Geoffrey Litwack:

Right

There was one poem

I think you said was about taking Xanax and drinking and ending up with an old sound guy from The Smell?

Mira Gonzalez:

lol jesus how did you know it was the smell

thats funny

Geoffrey Litwack:

I think you said!

Mira Gonzalez:

did i?

Geoffrey Litwack:

I think

Mira Gonzalez:

that wasnt even in the book that was a story on thought catalog

i think i said a music venue in downtown

Geoffrey Litwack:

Oh, okay

Mira Gonzalez:

are you from LA or something

seems so funny

Geoffrey Litwack:

I’m from Philly but I’ve lived in LA for 12 years now

I’ve been to The Smell

Mira Gonzalez:

oh sweet

Geoffrey Litwack:

My friend’s band was playing

Mira Gonzalez:

yeah that makes sense that you knew it was the smell then

if you live in LA its pretty obvious

Geoffrey Litwack:

I never go out, so for all I know there could be a bunch of music venues downtown

Actually that’s a good segue

Mira Gonzalez:

lol there are

Geoffrey Litwack:

See!

So you’re from Venice, basically?

Mira Gonzalez:

yeah

i was born in an apartment in mar vista

and then i moved to venice with my mom and stepdad when i was really young

like 3 or something

lived there my whole life until now

Geoffrey Litwack:

Were you a never-east-of-the-405 person, or not so much?

I live in the Valley, so our LAs could be totally different

Mira Gonzalez:

oh shit hold on, fire drill at work brb

lol

Geoffrey Litwack:

Amazing!

I’ll be here

Mira Gonzalez:

hey sorry

back

Geoffrey Litwack:

No probelm

Mira Gonzalez:

yeah ive never lived in the valley

didnt traverse the 405 hell to go there very often

Geoffrey Litwack:

I like it

Did you go east much, though?

Or mainly stay down by the beach?

Mira Gonzalez:

i mostly stayed by the beach but i went east sometimes

mostly to see bands downtown and stuff

or like echo park

Geoffrey Litwack:

Is music a big influence on your work, or do you listen to music when you write? You mentioned Bright Eyes somewhere, but I’m not sure if that was a sarcastic reference or not

Mira Gonzalez:

i dont usually listen to music when i write

i like music a lot though

i like bright eyes lol

im not sure where i mentioned bright eyes but it proabably wasnt sarcastic

Geoffrey Litwack:

I like Bright Eyes too

Not all the time, but sometimes

What about writers?

It was Tao Lin who suggested I talk to you

His book, I think, will be the best of this year

As awarded by JD Power and Associates

Mira Gonzalez:

lol

yeah i liked it a lot

Geoffrey Litwack:

Is proximity to other writers one of the reasons you moved to New York?

Mira Gonzalez:

for the most part yeah

there isnt much of a writing scene in LA

i had also just lived there for a long time and was starting to feel alienated

Geoffrey Litwack:

Alienated from the place, or?

Mira Gonzalez:

i guess from the people

or

i like a lot of people in LA

i think i was just getting tired of it maybe

Geoffrey Litwack:

Yeah

It’s maybe my least favorite of the places I’ve lived

But now I’m trapped

Mira Gonzalez:

lol

i mean i love LA

but yeah you do get in a trap

i was afraid to get into that trap

maybe thats why i left

Geoffrey Litwack:

Wise

Wise decision

I don’t like new york either, but I get it

The density of good things going on there is incredible

Mira Gonzalez:

yeah definitely

i think with writing stuff specifically its better for me to be here

LA is great but its so spread out and there arent many publishers or anything

Geoffrey Litwack:

Not really, no

I basically gave up writing so it’s irrelevant to me personally, but it’s sad from a cultural perspective

Mira Gonzalez:

yeah i mean

LA has other things going on

LA is great for music

Geoffrey Litwack:

That’s true

Film, etc.

But hey speaking of your move, and density

Is your next book going to be a novel?

Mira Gonzalez:

hopefully

or, im trying to do that

dont hold your breath though its probably gonna be a while lol

Geoffrey Litwack:

Novels are hard!

Especially first novels, there can be a lot of pressure

And the anxiety of influence, if you let that get to you

Mira Gonzalez:

yes absolutely

novels are so intimidating

i definitely want to write one

i like writing poetry but a novel seems more satisfying right now

Geoffrey Litwack:

I want to read this novel

I will be your first Amazon preorder

Mira Gonzalez:

damn sweet thank you

thats like 10 cents in my bank account probably

fucking sweet

lol

Geoffrey Litwack:

Depending on the publisher!

Actually, there was one thing I wanted to ask about publishers

I noticed that your book has a Creative Commons license

Was that something sorry house wanted, or something you wanted?

Mira Gonzalez:

i think that was sorry house

i was involved in every step of the book making process but the copyright page was mostly spencer and willis i think

im not entirely sure whats on there to be honest

lol

Geoffrey Litwack:

I think it means people can email their friends a copy and not have the NSA break down their door, or something

Mira Gonzalez:

lol

well thats good

i think i emailed you a copy so im glad the NSA wont break down my door

Geoffrey Litwack:

Unlikely

Is this a good place to stop? I’ve gone through what I had in my mira.txt document

Mira Gonzalez:

yeah that works for me

unless you have something else you wanna say

Geoffrey Litwack:

I was actually curious about one thing you said

That your biological dad was trying to kill you

I think you said that in your Vice interview

Mira Gonzalez:

lol

lol

Geoffrey Litwack:

I don’t mean to pry, but that jumped out at me

Mira Gonzalez:

my biological dad read that and said i should have said something funnier

Geoffrey Litwack:

NOW’S YOUR CHANCE

Mira Gonzalez:

lol oh god

too much pressure

cant….

Geoffrey Litwack:

Just kidding

Mira Gonzalez:

it was mostly just poking fun at my dad i guess

Geoffrey Litwack:

Okay

I can cut that!

Mira Gonzalez:

haha

no its fine you can leave it

i put it in the vice interview

Geoffrey Litwack:

Okay

I’ll put this whole thing up

It’s been a pleasure talking to you

Mira Gonzalez:

you too geoffrey

My Google Chat with Tao Lin

Tao Lin is the author of at least two wonderful books (2/2 for the ones I’ve read), Eeeee Eee Eeee and his most recent, Shoplifting From American Apparel, which you should go buy right now; it’s one of my favorite books I read this year, easily. A few days ago, I won an eBay auction for a 30 minute conversation with him on Google Chat. Here it is. (We went a little bit over on time.)
—

‪me: ‬ ‪Hi Tao, I’m here if you’re ready‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪hi geoff, i’m ready‬
‪me: ‬ ‪outstanding‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪is your last name ‘litwack’‬
‪me: ‬ ‪Yes‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪hehe, nice‬
thought it was something about ‘literary’ wack or something
‪me: ‬ ‪ha ha‬
no, family name
‪Tao: ‬ ‪interesting‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i believe it’s from the original name for belarus‬
which is ‘litwa’
‪Tao: ‬ ‪interesting‬
‪me: ‬ ‪but who knows‬
i have a name question for you
‪Tao: ‬ ‪ok‬
‪me: ‬ ‪is your first name‬
with a D sound?
‪Tao: ‬ ‪no, T‬
‪me: ‬ ‪I see‬
ok
i thought so but wasn’t sure
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i’m ‘down’ with D‬
‪me: ‬ ‪mm‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪what do you want to talk about?‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i have prepared questions‬
a few
‪Tao: ‬ ‪sweet‬
‪me: ‬ ‪after‬
i would like you to give me some life advice
‪Tao: ‬ ‪ok‬
‪me: ‬ ‪and then if we have time we can have a free form discussion‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪sounds good‬
‪me: ‬ ‪also, feel free to ask me questions‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪ok‬
where are you?
‪me: ‬ ‪first question‬
oh i’m in LA
the valley
‪Tao: ‬ ‪nice‬
‪me: ‬ ‪it’s ok‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪ok, first question‬
‪me: ‬ ‪your current age‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪26‬
you?
‪me: ‬ ‪30‬
i don’t feel 30
‪Tao: ‬ ‪what do you feel‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i feel 17‬
and have for the past 13 years
‪Tao: ‬ ‪interesting‬
i feel 60 sometimes
‪me: ‬ ‪yeah‬
but that’s how i felt at 17
old
‪Tao: ‬ ‪damn‬
how old did you think i was
‪me: ‬ ‪i thought you were 25‬
i knew you were young
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i have turned 26‬
‪me: ‬ ‪what’s your birthday?‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪july 2‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i see‬
i’m june XX [Nb. redacted; this is the only thing in this conversation i edited except for one stupid spelling error on my part]
so, close
‪Tao: ‬ ‪interesting‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i may censor this on my blog in the interest of online security‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪online security, in what way?‬
‪me: ‬ ‪it’s a security question, your birthday‬
for banking
etc
‪Tao: ‬ ‪oh, interesting‬
i don’t mind
‪me: ‬ ‪i sound jewish, huh‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i think i used my mother’s maiden name for security questions, or something‬
‪me: ‬ ‪yeah, that too‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i don’t anticipate having money that people can steal anyway‬
‪me: ‬ ‪aww c’mon‬
you are going to do fine
i know it’s been a struggle so far
‪Tao: ‬ ‪hehe‬
what other questions do you have?
‪me: ‬ ‪ok‬
i want to get the literary stuff out of the way
i’m not a journalist or something
so these are personal sort of
first
i read Shoplifting
that was your first work i encountered
i was v. impressed by it
‪Tao: ‬ ‪interesting‬
‪me: ‬ ‪my thought was‬
i’m going to use your single quote marks here
‘this is what i thought literature was going to be like in 2010, in 2000.’
‪Tao: ‬ ‪’jesus’‬
‪me: ‬ ‪sorry‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪interesting‬
‪me: ‬ ‪then i used amazon prime to get e.e.e.‬
which i strongly disliked for 20 pages, and then loved
‪Tao: ‬ ‪hm, interesting‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i initially misunderstood your intent‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪what did you think my intent was at first‬
‪me: ‬ ‪assuming i correctly understood it after those 20 pages‬
crude postmodernism
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i see‬
‪me: ‬ ‪in a reactionary way‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪hm‬
‪me: ‬ ‪given that postmodernism is now a dated form‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪how did you first ‘encounter’ ’sfaa’‬
‪me: ‬ ‪good question‬
on the web
ah
rex sorgatz
‪Tao: ‬ ‪where‬
‪me: ‬ ‪Fimoculous‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪who is that‬
‪me: ‬ ‪blog‬
he’s an old, old school blogger
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i’ve never heard of that‬
‪me: ‬ ‪awesome dude‬
fimoculous.com/
‪Tao: ‬ ‪how old is he‬
‪me: ‬ ‪35ish?‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪nice‬
what did he say
‪me: ‬ ‪he mentioned it‬
i believe he knew of you from before somehwo
somehow
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i see‬
‪me: ‬ ‪he’s from minnesota‬
friends with diablo cody, chuck klosterman
that set
‪Tao: ‬ ‪is he famous?‬
‪me: ‬ ‪no‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪or seomthing‬
‪me: ‬ ‪he’s more of a connector‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪a connector‬
‪me: ‬ ‪rex, if you read this, i apologize if i have mischaracterized you‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪interesting‬
‪me: ‬ ‪so anyway‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪rex‬
‪me: ‬ ‪your work reminds me most of certain french writers‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪interesting, who‬
‪me: ‬ ‪Toussant, Robbe-Grillet and the Perec of “Things.”‬
Not Houellebecq, as some have said
‪Tao: ‬ ‪hm, i’ve read some of perec‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i love Perec‬
not his later oulipo work
i mean, i love that but you don’t remind me of it
‪Tao: ‬ ‪does he have an afro‬
‪me: ‬ ‪kind of actually‬
he’s dead
‪Tao: ‬ ‪’why’?‬
how did he get an afro, i mean
‪me: ‬ ‪jewish‬
jewfro
‪Tao: ‬ ‪oh yeah‬
i see
‪me: ‬ ‪um‬
do you think of your work in the context of other writers?
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i’ve read half of a houllebecq novel‬
‪me: ‬ ‪which one?‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i don’t remember‬
where he goes on vacation
‪me: ‬ ‪oh uh‬
atomized
‪Tao: ‬ ‪and doesn’t ‘connect’ with the other people‬
‪me: ‬ ‪or whatever they call it here‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪then i think he has sex with prostitutes‬
‪me: ‬ ‪yeah, lots of sex‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i view my work as in the tradition of the ‘kmart realists,’ as they were termed by tom wolfe and others‬
‪me: ‬ ‪but on the main point‬
this calvino idea of your book on a shelf with other books
‪Tao: ‬ ‪yes, the group of writers called ‘kmart realists’ by journalists‬
‪me: ‬ ‪okay‬
so you identify with them
ann beatie etc
‪Tao: ‬ ‪do you know them at all‬
yeah
‪me: ‬ ‪not all of them‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i just like their writing and have been influenced by it in my writing‬
‪me: ‬ ‪that’s good‬
i am going to read them more extensively
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i recommend ‘chilly scenes of winter’ or ‘distortions’ by ann beattie‬
and ‘honored guest’ by joy williams
‪me: ‬ ‪great‬
i will order those
‪Tao: ‬ ‪nice‬
‪me: ‬ ‪okay‬
this is my next question
about single quote marks
‪Tao: ‬ ‪yes‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i pretyped this so i’m just going to paste it in‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪hehe, ok‬
‪me: ‬ ‪Your use of single quotation marks – my thought is you use them to sort of designate mind-watching-mind objects of what the buddhists call rigpa/vidya, to remove the reader from the flow of absorbtion and call their attention to the nature of a ‘cheeto’ or whatever. Or a feeling; ex. in your Twitter stream you write “found my ipod cord, ‘lightheadedly’ felt feelings toward it like it had been ‘disobedient’”. ‬
‪It seems like you’re trying to strike at something cognitive, not something anthropological.‬
do you agree with any part of that?
‪Tao: ‬ ‪good job quoting my twitter‬
‪me: ‬ ‪thank you‬
Sent at 12:14 PM on Wednesday
‪Tao: ‬ ‪it seems like what you typed could be one thing i’m doing‬
‪me: ‬ ‪okay‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i would say i’m not calling attention to the nature of a word, but calling attention to my ‘relationship’ with the word‬
‪me: ‬ ‪and we intuit the nature of this relationship from context?‬
obviously i guess
‪Tao: ‬ ‪that i’m using said word ‘not literally,’ ‘with a definition different than the conventional definition,’ or that i’m ‘using the word with some degree of irony or sarcasm,’ or that i’m ‘taking a perspective different than my normal perspective for a moment, therefore “quoting” the word, from someone else’s perspective, that i assume the reader will know, to some degree’ (i think my use of single quotes isn’t consistent in this paragraph)‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i see‬
okay
thank you
‪Tao: ‬ ‪for example i feel uncomfortable using non literal language sometimes‬
‪me: ‬ ‪me too‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪so i put quotes around it, so people know i feel uncomfortable, to some degree, using that language‬
so they can know ‘who i am’ better
‪me: ‬ ‪that discomfort is magic‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪so we can ‘connect’ more effectively‬
for example if i read someone’s blog and they had a lot of non literal language or idioms i would feel less connceted to them, and less inclined to contact them to be friends with them
‪me: ‬ ‪i don’t know if you read my blog‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪but if they put quote marks around some of those idioms i would feel closer to them, and might want to contact them or something‬
‪me: ‬ ‪did you feel it was literal or non literal?‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i read some of it‬
i think neutral
‪me: ‬ ‪mmm‬
that is fair
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i didn’t immediately label it literal or non literal, so maybe it was literal‬
based on what i read and the level of thought i used re what i was reading
‪me: ‬ ‪isee‬
space
i’m a screenwriter
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i saw your review of ‘the girlfriend experience’‬
‪me: ‬ ‪being literal and shaving descriptions is v. important to me‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪did you say you didn’t feel it was substantial?‬
‪me: ‬ ‪sort of‬
yes
‪Tao: ‬ ‪interesting‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i liked her performance‬
however
‪Tao: ‬ ‪would you say then that ’sfaa’ isn’t substantial, as they both ’stay on the surface’ of things‬
‪me: ‬ ‪no‬
SFAA is very substantial
‪Tao: ‬ ‪interesting‬
‪me: ‬ ‪in part because of your use of time‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i se‬
e
‪me: ‬ ‪girlfriend experience shies away from film tropes‬
which one level is good
but on another, limiting
‪Tao: ‬ ‪what are you working on screenplay wise right now?‬
‪me: ‬ ‪the spec i wrote with my little sister‬
we’re going out to studios with it next week
‪Tao: ‬ ‪how old is she?‬
‪me: ‬ ‪23‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪sounds exciting‬
what do you expect to happen
‪me: ‬ ‪i expect to make $32000 after taxes‬
join the wga
and write another spec with her
‪Tao: ‬ ‪wow‬
‪me: ‬ ‪not wow, Tao!‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪don’t have ‘need’ to get an agent though‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i have an agent‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪and the agent tries to sell it‬
oh, nice
damn
‪me: ‬ ‪i’m at CAA‬
blowing my own horn
‪Tao: ‬ ‪nice‬
‪me: ‬ ‪thank you‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i’ve made like $18000 in 6 years‬
‪me: ‬ ‪but uh‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪on writing‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i know‬
i was going to ask you about that
‪Tao: ‬ ‪aren’t people supposed to be trying to option my books for movies‬
and paying me money
‪me: ‬ ‪yes‬
but
your work is not adaptable, of the two i read
‪Tao: ‬ ‪damn‬
‪me: ‬ ‪that’s what makes it good, in part‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i see‬
‪me: ‬ ‪if you want to write a film, write a film, but don’t write something as bait for adaptation‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪seems like someone in hollywood should still be optioning my books‬
‪me: ‬ ‪you are too talented for that bullshit‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪’just to be safe’‬
‪me: ‬ ‪perhaps‬
many options are for $0
‪Tao: ‬ ‪ben stiller or someone‬
i see
‪me: ‬ ‪his company is Red Hour‬
he has been working on an adaptation of Civillwarland In Bad Decline for ten years
TEN YEARS
‪Tao: ‬ ‪damn‬
‪me: ‬ ‪yeah‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪what is he working on‬
‪me: ‬ ‪with civilwarland, or in general?‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪civilwarland‬
‪me: ‬ ‪getting the script ‘just right’‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i see‬
‪me: ‬ ‪to make it commercial‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪interesting‬
‪me: ‬ ‪we have four minutes‬
i have many more questions
fuck
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i can stay a little longer‬
‪me: ‬ ‪okay‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪what is your next question‬
‪me: ‬ ‪your IQ‬
i read it was 172 or something
‪Tao: ‬ ‪haha damn‬
‪me: ‬ ‪did you say that, or was that a cruel dig‬
on the part of someone else
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i think it wasn’t about me‬
it was someone’s IQ in a book or something
i think my IQ was tested at 139 or something
‪me: ‬ ‪i see‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i didn’t speak english‬
well
or osmething
‪me: ‬ ‪jesus‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪so it might not be accurate‬
‪me: ‬ ‪that’s a good result for no english‬
i’m sure not
‪Tao: ‬ ‪what is your IQ‬
‪me: ‬ ‪it was tested when i was four‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪al gore’s IQ is 142‬
‪me: ‬ ‪so i am sure the multiplier fucked things up‬
i may still be the world’s smartest four year old
155
‪Tao: ‬ ‪damn‬
were you in the ‘gifted’ program
‪me: ‬ ‪i am not that smart‬
no, i didn’t go to school
‪Tao: ‬ ‪you didn’t go to school‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i was homeschooled‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i see‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i left home when i was 16, though‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i think i used to view people by their IQ, now i view people based on how well adjusted they are and how concretely they view things‬
‪me: ‬ ‪exactly‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪which seems not on the same spectrum as IQ‬
‪me: ‬ ‪totally‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪or not entirely on the same spectrum‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i prefer the new way‬
also, no one talked about asperger’s in the 80s
which i feel like is when iq was a popular measure
‪Tao: ‬ ‪interesting‬
hm
what is your next question?
‪me: ‬ ‪next‬
do you know Andrea Seigel, my BFF?
‪Tao: ‬ ‪hm, the name seems familiar‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i think you may have exchanged email in 2007‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪ill search my gmail‬
‪me: ‬ ‪ok‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪oh, is she a writer‬
of ‘like the red panda’
‪me: ‬ ‪yes‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪oh, cool‬
i read that book
i see she emailed me saying she liked my ‘the stranger’ article about fiction writers
i didn’t know that was her
‪me: ‬ ‪oh, i see‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪how is she doing‬
‪me: ‬ ‪not well frankly‬
personal family reasons
otherwise fine
‪Tao: ‬ ‪how is her career going‬
‪me: ‬ ‪Well‬
she just signed with UTA
‪Tao: ‬ ‪what is that‬
‪me: ‬ ‪her junior adult book is coming out‬
another big film agency in la
‪Tao: ‬ ‪interesting‬
how old is she?
‪me: ‬ ‪29‬
turning 30 this year
‪Tao: ‬ ‪interesting‬
‪me: ‬ ‪we went to school together‬
although we were not friends there
she thought i was a stupid stoner
‪Tao: ‬ ‪bennington?‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i thought she was a weird goth‬
no, brown
‪Tao: ‬ ‪she was a goth?‬
hehe
‪me: ‬ ‪she got her mfa at bennington‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i think i remember her looking goth in her author photo‬
‪me: ‬ ‪she’s not goth now‬
on the outside
‪Tao: ‬ ‪damn‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i consider myself to be kind of a goth, inside‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪damn‬
‪me: ‬ ‪although not with the victorian trappings, at all‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪interesting‬
goth
‪me: ‬ ‪i read your thing about juggalos‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪gothic‬
‪me: ‬ ‪they’re kind of like degraded goths‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪haha‬
degraded goths, damn
‪me: ‬ ‪goths without a philosophy‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪what is the origin of the term ‘juggalo’‬
seems weird
‪me: ‬ ‪i don’t know‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪jugs‬
‪me: ‬ ‪floridia must be involved‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪seems really weird‬
seems good, though
there seem to be ‘millions’ of them
‪me: ‬ ‪yeah‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪seems weird‬
what is your next question
‪me: ‬ ‪next‬
are there any visual artists you admire
‪Tao: ‬ ‪hm‬
i don’t think so
i don’t know of any really
‪me: ‬ ‪mmm‬
that’s fine
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i like graphic novels by adrian tomine, chris ware, daniel clowes, jeffrey brown, joe matt, chester brown‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i have read all of those authors‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪julia wertz‬
‪me: ‬ ‪her i don’t know‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪who is your favorite‬
‪me: ‬ ‪hard to say‬
i am moved by current art that
i would understand if people don’t like
kaws
neckface
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i see‬
‪me: ‬ ‪marc dean veca‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i don’t really feel ‘moved’ by anything that doesn’t have language, i think‬
even music, i feel
‪me: ‬ ‪even music?‬
wow
‪Tao: ‬ ‪maybe‬
i’m not sure
‪me: ‬ ‪i remember crying to neutral milk hotel‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪if it has lyrics that counts as ‘language’ for me‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i see‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i feel moved by music with lyrics‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i have been moved by non-lyrical music‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪what is your next question‬
do i seem ‘mean’
‪me: ‬ ‪i wonder if you know my ex-girlfriend‬
no!
not at all
‪Tao: ‬ ‪who is she?‬
oh, good
‪me: ‬ ‪Nathalie Chicha‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪oh, damn‬
‪me: ‬ ‪she lives in brooklyn‬
you live in brooklyn
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i’ve never met her but i emailed a few times‬
‪me: ‬ ‪really‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪let me serach my gmail‬
‪me: ‬ ‪what did you talk about?‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i think i was trying to get her job‬
as blogger for galleycat
‪me: ‬ ‪at gallycat?‬
ah
‪Tao: ‬ ‪and then one time i was interviewing her‬
for my journalism class
‪me: ‬ ‪i see‬
i thought you might know her, even though i had no basis for that thought
‪Tao: ‬ ‪damn, seems like everyone knows everyone‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i am waaaay out at the fringe‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i think i read a short story by her one time on ‘xconnect’ or something‬
‪me: ‬ ‪she’s a talented writer‬
i wish she wrote more
‪Tao: ‬ ‪what is she doing now‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i don’t know‬
i keep trying to get in touch with her, and she keeps not answering my email
‪Tao: ‬ ‪damn‬
‪me: ‬ ‪nothing bad happened‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪is she on the internet still‬
‪me: ‬ ‪she can just be avoidant‬
no
apparently not
‪Tao: ‬ ‪danb‬
damn
interesting
‪me: ‬ ‪i still love her‬
not romantically
‪Tao: ‬ ‪damn‬
‪me: ‬ ‪however‬
i promised to love her always
‪Tao: ‬ ‪what is she doing, if she has left the internet‬
‪me: ‬ ‪and i am keeping that promise‬
i honestly don’t know
i know what her last job was, but i don’t know if she still has it
‪Tao: ‬ ‪seems like she must have moved to a foreign country, or become a school teacher or something, to leave the internet‬
‪me: ‬ ‪she left a while ago‬
abandoned her blog
‪Tao: ‬ ‪hm‬
how long did you date her
‪me: ‬ ‪three years almost to the day‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i just googled her and she has a tiwtter‬
‪me: ‬ ‪does she?‬
wow
‪Tao: ‬ ‪with no tweets though‬
‪me: ‬ ‪oh‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪are you fb friends with her‬
‪me: ‬ ‪yes‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪interesting‬
does she just add anyone
‪me: ‬ ‪i don’t know‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪or allow anyone to be her friend‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i’m sure she’ll add you though‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪’guess i’ll add her’ since i clicekd her page and am here‬
‪me: ‬ ‪good idea‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪3 years, seems like a long time‬
‪me: ‬ ‪it was my longest relationship‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪hm‬
did you live in brooklyn then
‪me: ‬ ‪no‬
this was at college
then she moved to iowa to get her mfa and i couldn’t hack it
‪Tao: ‬ ‪interesting‬
damn
‪me: ‬ ‪although we were basically breaking up before then‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i’ve known all the poeple you’ve asked me if i knew‬
‪me: ‬ ‪yes‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪interesting‬
‪me: ‬ ‪but i’m out of people‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪seems like everyone just knows eveyrone‬
do you have more questions
‪me: ‬ ‪advice‬
i know this is running on
three things, if you have time
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i have time‬
‪me: ‬ ‪while we’re on the topic‬
how should i find a new girlfriend?
‪Tao: ‬ ‪hm‬
internet
i’ve found my girlfriends on the internet
my answer seems to be ‘internet’
‪me: ‬ ‪through your work, or institutional sites?‬
i don’t see you on okcupid
‪Tao: ‬ ‪my blog‬
and work
i haven’t used any ‘institutional’ things
‪me: ‬ ‪i am blogging wrong‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪people i know have used those effectively, i think, though‬
‪me: ‬ ‪okay‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪craigslist‬
‪me: ‬ ‪really? that i find frightening‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪what other advice do you want‬
‪me: ‬ ‪you are extremely productive‬
five books in very few years
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i would avoid craigslist, i feel‬
‪me: ‬ ‪how do you stay so productive?‬
do you have ‘tips?’
Sent at 12:46 PM on Wednesday
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i think by naturally not having urges to ‘hang out’ with people, not having a tv, not having a personal or laptop computer for a long time (only library), and almost always wanting to ‘feel more sad’ or ‘analyze it more’ (causing ‘work’ to be produced) when feeling sad instead of ‘blocking it out’ by drinking alcohol or forcing myself to sleep‬
‪me: ‬ ‪that is amazing‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪and when i have a girlfriend i feel satisfied in terms of ’social life’ with just the girlfriend‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i see‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪so i spend all my time away from them ‘working’‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i understand‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪what is your third item of advice‬
‪me: ‬ ‪what do you do when you feel anxious, to overcome it?‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪hm‬
in social situations i just keep feeling anxious most of the time
while alone i don’t really feel anxious
‪me: ‬ ‪you don’t feel anxious alone no matter where you are in the world?‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪maybe sometimes i’ll think about ‘death’ and ‘the arbitrary nature of the universe’ and i’ll feel more calm/detached‬
‪me: ‬ ‪that makes sense‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪if i’m in an anxiety causing situation, like being late to meet someone, i just think that if i focus on the anxiety it will just create more problems, so if i want to be more effective in solving my problem i should logically ‘choose’ to not feel anxious, and that usually works to some degree‬
‪me: ‬ ‪you are more advanced than i am in that respect‬
but that is good advice
‪Tao: ‬ ‪well, it doesn’t usually work probably‬
i’m not ‘zen’ at all, in my view, i get frustrated and annoyed a lot, it seems
‪me: ‬ ‪mm‬
in my mid 20s, i lost most of my anger
that was a real loss
‪Tao: ‬ ‪hm‬
‪me: ‬ ‪so maybe the frustration is good‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i think i don’t have any anger at all‬
i don’t know
hm
‪me: ‬ ‪i just meant that maybe things we characterize as ‘negative’ can sometimes be ‘positive’‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪do you have other questions?‬
i see, that makes sense
‪me: ‬ ‪only if you are satisfied with this transaction‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪yes, i am very satisfied, how about you?‬
‪me: ‬ ‪from the sale, to the execution of the conversation‬
very satisfied
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i see your bid as a sort of donation to me, of which i thank you for‬
and i’ll link the gchat if you post it, gaining you hits
‪me: ‬ ‪yes, thank you‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i enjoyed talking to you‬
seems interesting re andrea/nathalie
‪me: ‬ ‪yes‬
they’re both amazing
in their own ways
‪Tao: ‬ ‪i completely forgot about them both‬
but remember knowing a lot about each sort of at one time in the past
seems interesting
i am ‘holding in’ a lot of pee right now
‪me: ‬ ‪okay‬
go!
but
‪Tao: ‬ ‪thank you for bidding on the gchat and for chatting w/ me‬
‪me: ‬ ‪i want to say, i count myself as a true fan of yours and‬
anxious await the next book
‪Tao: ‬ ‪oh, good‬
thank you
‪me: ‬ ‪i will now friend you on facebook and post this to my blog‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪will check your blog periodically, i feel‬
‪me: ‬ ‪wonderful‬
‪Tao: ‬ ‪have a nice day‬
‪me: ‬ ‪you too Tao